Tópico dos aviões

LuisPedro disse:
Pensei que fosse haver mais fragmentação mid air.
Clique para expandir...
O avião transformou-se num dardo/missil aerodinamico.

Entretanto o leme de profundidade esquerdo apareceu espalhado, em 3 pedaços, a uma distãncia entre 1,3 e 3,8 milhas do local do acidente.
Ao que parece gelo devido ao updraft da célula>manobra de recuperação demasiado tarde num avião sensível às condições presentes >stall>overspeed>perda do leme>descida incontrolável.
 
Vejam este vídeo. São os mesmos dois pilotos. Dá para perceber que a tripulação era incompetente e brincava com o fogo. Que tristeza. Foi 99% de certeza erro dos pilotos.

 
fhff disse:
avião sensível às condições presentes >stall>overspeed>perda do leme>descida incontrolável.
Clique para expandir...

vi um comentário de um comandante que voou vários modelos, entre eles o Learjet 60 por muitos anos, e ele disse que é o avião mais perigoso que alguma vez voou.

é pena não encontrar agora o comentário, senão metia aqui


EDIT: encontrei


"I flew the Lear 60 for like 15 years. It's a no joke airplane and probably the most dangerous airplane I've ever flown. It has a super critical wing. The airflow has to be perfect. When it gets into rough air and turbulence, it will easily stall. It has stalled on me at 41,000 feet just because we got into some turbulence. (On the way to Palm Beach as a matter of fact. ) we recovered and got her flying again around 30,000 ft. Scary

But here's the problem. This airplane has a terrible coffin corner. (At high altitudes) what that means is, you fly in a really narrow window where if you lose 20 knots, it stalls. And if you gain 20 knots, it goes into overspeed. The air goes supersonic over the wing and it goes into a high speed stall, or worse, a Mach tuck.

So if you stall, the normal recovery is to push the yoke forward to lower the nose and gain air speed again. At low altitude, you can push really hard and recover quickly. But in the 60... if you push hard, it will gain air speed and go into a high speed stall, it doesn't take much. It's very sensitive. The 60 has super short wings that don't make much lift. So then you high speed stall, and the computer is yelling at you... OVERSPEED! So then you pull back and enter a low speed stall. And you go back and forth trying to keep it in the air speed window.

This whole thing is pretty scary. And you should recover basically by using your finger tips using super small corrections. You can't over do it. If you try to muscle the recovery, she gets mad and will become unrecoverable. If she enters a mach tuck. You're done.

I taught the Lear 60 to other pilots and mentored them. I told them... this airplane has a soul and it's trying to kill you. Do not ever try to top the weather. Don't go over a thunderstorm. Go around it. If it means a half hour longer, then do it. Going over the thunderstorm will go into turbulence that you might not recover from.

These pilots went right over a thunderstorm. think it stalled which caused them to drop down into the thunderstorm and ended up in mach tuck. They picked up so much speed that it ripped off the horizontal stabilizer. At that point... chuck Yeager can't fix it.

These same pilots did something similar a couple months ago. ATC got mad at them. They poked the bear one too many times.

This is not a beginner airplane. The Gulfstream would never do this. It has HUGE margins of error and won't stall like that. But then again... it's got HUGE wings. It's a pussy cat.

The Gulfstream is like driving a 4 wheeler. The Lear 60 is like riding a uni cycle."
 
Última edição:
Segundo a página do Learjet 60 na Wikipedia, este é o avião executivo com a maior taxa de acidentes da sua classe mas a grande maioria dos acidentes são na aterragem porque tem um sistema de gear e rodas subdimensionado que provém da versão anterior do modelo.

en.wikipedia.org

Learjet 60 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Mas este acidente nao foi na aterragem portanto isto não se aplica.

Esse vídeo explica bem o que aconteceu, os pilotos tinham uma atitude bastante negligenciável. Numa situação semelhante ignoraram o ATC.
 
Charger144 disse:
vi um comentário de um comandante que voou vários modelos, entre eles o Learjet 60 por muitos anos, e ele disse que é o avião mais perigoso que alguma vez voou.

é pena não encontrar agora o comentário, senão metia aqui


EDIT: encontrei


"I flew the Lear 60 for like 15 years. It's a no joke airplane and probably the most dangerous airplane I've ever flown. It has a super critical wing. The airflow has to be perfect. When it gets into rough air and turbulence, it will easily stall. It has stalled on me at 41,000 feet just because we got into some turbulence. (On the way to Palm Beach as a matter of fact. ) we recovered and got her flying again around 30,000 ft. Scary

But here's the problem. This airplane has a terrible coffin corner. (At high altitudes) what that means is, you fly in a really narrow window where if you lose 20 knots, it stalls. And if you gain 20 knots, it goes into overspeed. The air goes supersonic over the wing and it goes into a high speed stall, or worse, a Mach tuck.

So if you stall, the normal recovery is to push the yoke forward to lower the nose and gain air speed again. At low altitude, you can push really hard and recover quickly. But in the 60... if you push hard, it will gain air speed and go into a high speed stall, it doesn't take much. It's very sensitive. The 60 has super short wings that don't make much lift. So then you high speed stall, and the computer is yelling at you... OVERSPEED! So then you pull back and enter a low speed stall. And you go back and forth trying to keep it in the air speed window.

This whole thing is pretty scary. And you should recover basically by using your finger tips using super small corrections. You can't over do it. If you try to muscle the recovery, she gets mad and will become unrecoverable. If she enters a mach tuck. You're done.

I taught the Lear 60 to other pilots and mentored them. I told them... this airplane has a soul and it's trying to kill you. Do not ever try to top the weather. Don't go over a thunderstorm. Go around it. If it means a half hour longer, then do it. Going over the thunderstorm will go into turbulence that you might not recover from.

These pilots went right over a thunderstorm. think it stalled which caused them to drop down into the thunderstorm and ended up in mach tuck. They picked up so much speed that it ripped off the horizontal stabilizer. At that point... chuck Yeager can't fix it.

These same pilots did something similar a couple months ago. ATC got mad at them. They poked the bear one too many times.

This is not a beginner airplane. The Gulfstream would never do this. It has HUGE margins of error and won't stall like that. But then again... it's got HUGE wings. It's a pussy cat.

The Gulfstream is like driving a 4 wheeler. The Lear 60 is like riding a uni cycle."
Clique para expandir...


sim, também tinha lido um artigo que explica como o Lear 60 é um avião muito mais perigoso que os outros:


"It developed a reputation of a widow maker because as the pilots would bring the airplane in on the approach and raise the nose for landing, they were crashing on the approaches and killing pilots and passengers," Slack said of the aircraft model.

Slack said the Learjet 60 was not built to withstand the storm conditions it encountered, describing the loss of lift as like flipping a switch.

"Once that stall occurs in a Learjet 60…even an astronaut cannot recover that airplane," Slack said. "Basically, it's a death sentence to everyone on board if they stall a Lear. particularly a Lear 60 which is the worst of them all in terms of propensity to stall."

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